Author Topic: Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?  (Read 4458 times)

Seth Jayson

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Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?
« on: February 11, 2015, 06:33:26 PM »
Hey doublers,

Since it's a long trip for me out there, I think I might want to double the fun. I ran the marathon last year and had a great time, and wondered about doubling up for 2015. Here's my question for doublers: how much (if at all) do you feel like the ascent sets you back on marathon day?

I know that might seem like a stupid question, but I've run quite a few mountain marathons and one of the things that strikes me is that for most mortals, on the climbs, we simply can't go fast enough to get all that beat up. Like at the end of the long Alpine marathons I've done, I'm redlining, and I can't go any faster, even if that's a walk, but 10 minutes after I'm done, my legs feel fine. I definitely don't feel that way after a hard road marathon (or after a ton of downhill, like the second half of PPM).

Anyway, I thought I'd ask to see what some of the veteran doublers feel.

Tyler

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Re: Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2015, 09:49:58 AM »
I'm usually 10-15 minutes slower on the Ascent during the Marathon than I was the prior day, but about 75% of that difference I attribute to stopping on the trail to yield to the faster runners coming back down, and the other 25% to purposeful energy conservation.

I can't compare my overall Marathon time vs. a non-doubler year, as I've only doubled, or run the Ascent only.

Seth Jayson

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Re: Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 06:29:15 PM »
Thanks. That's useful. I could deal with that. I know someone who doubled one year and did much better on the ascent during the marathon than the day before, but she's kind of a beast.

I am a long way from Colo., and this may not be a frequent trip for me, so I'm thinking of maximizing Ape Mode while I'm there this year.

Hoot

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Re: Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2015, 09:50:51 AM »
$175

FlyGirl

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Re: Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2015, 10:49:10 AM »
I'm usually within 5-10 minutes of my Ascent time on Marathon day, again attributed mostly to sharing the trail and needing to step out of the way.  If you manage your pace and energy level on Ascent day, you'll be okay. 
Just train with hills and trails as you can.  You'll be okay.  :)

Sean Sidelko

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Re: Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2015, 12:33:15 PM »
Depends on the year. 

You tend to lose 5-10 minutes of time on the way up if you were running the same pace on Sun as you did on Sat to account for all the runners coming back down that you have to make room for.

For me, I tend to run better on the 2nd ascent then I do on the first one.   This last year my Marathon Ascent time was 30 min faster then the Ascent, 4:20 down to like 3:50.

Seth Jayson

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Re: Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2015, 09:44:09 AM »
That's interesting. I know others who have done the same thing, better ascent on marathon day.

Vomastic

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Re: Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2015, 10:44:46 PM »
This is a paragraph from the book by Matt Carpenter and Jim Freim regarding training for the PPA and PPM.  ( http://skyrunner.com/guide/ )

When looking at  the times of the 870 Doubles run since 1981 we found some interesting results.  On the average, the Ascent time during the Marathon was only 6 minutes and 21 seconds slower that the Ascent only time from the day before.  Given how hard and long the Ascent is, running it just 6:21 slower the next day is amazing.  In fact, many went faster during their day two Ascent!  These racers are either smart and know how to pace themselves or the fatigue from day one forces a smarter race strategy on them for day two.  We suspect a little of both.

Seth Jayson

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Re: Doublers! How much does the ascent set you back?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2015, 07:48:12 AM »
That is a slim differential, and would probably be easily explained by pacing the marathon a bit more conservatively along with passing traffic, etc. I plan to treat the ascent as more of a fun warmup, and try to save my juice for the marathon, where I think I can be more competitive over the longer haul than in just the straight up lungbuster.